So get a call yesterday from a mutual friend who says -- I heard that whole interview -- valor Cottrell. Command that was written with really riveting new hearsay the stuff. I have a note James noble if you modify given your phone number and so I'm listeners -- and I guess my headphone thing is orders James calls -- on hello hello hold. -- -- -- -- seven so I have got an empire -- and although I -- Collins is actually telephone James calls me again I got the headphones and on the Alan -- finally pull it out in the end and talked to James and he's here this morning. James nosed defense attorney just told it has been cracks -- wall really for nine years and this is -- his fifth. Acquittal on murder he was -- venerable venom bouncing the last name wrong with the you'll bar. Home murdered that went down here's the defense attorney in that column death because this is his fifth equipment and get some heavy duty stuff gone around. Yeah you know I'm I'm very fortunate to be doing this level work to this point my career but -- things are going along on some headliner on premiere that is some headlines up. The the so take me to the moment that you hear the juries come back -- deliberated for eleven hours how many days was a trial I want to Beckel I went for it to a full two weeks including jury selection so we started. On a Monday when that whole week. And when -- second hole Wi -- got a verdicts wait Friday afternoon would arrive this past Friday so this past Friday but and so for two weeks you Connie in therein and I I don't -- but I would I kind of look at trials. And haven't talked to guys like John turn -- -- to me it's it's almost like out of a boxing match each round you're in there you're trying to -- will be paying attention to what your opponent's doing what they're saying verbiage it's got to be very stressful and I have to think. Very taxing. Yeah absolutely it wears you out I mean a you know every every single witnesses is so -- Matlock is. Yeah Netflix every single witnesses it can be a battle there's things that did the prosecutions look to get out of their witnesses and yes things and I'm looking to get out of their witnesses as well so. You know weigh in a lot of trials you have one day were you feel like these are going great in the next say things are going -- also mean it's a very up and says and that's not necessarily the way that it went in this particular case but. You know it at every trials of battle you know your your finder get your facts in front of the jury. And then making sure that you get out what you wanna get out from your own witnesses for the prosecution witness -- it's definitely taxing us so we're -- Friday when he get when you hear that juries returned. I was in my office when I got a caller was in no -- which could mean a variety of things in my wants and testimony read back Ernie you're the law. Came over. And they wanted to hear the law I think justification -- back which is self defense and our law essentially you know and then about ten minutes later they came back with a verdict and and how you feel what is what's happening inside view I'm alone -- climb but you only come on yourself what will happen and you're certainly always nervous. You know I've learned over the years that you can kind of predict where you think the jury's going based on what they wanna hear read -- -- -- specific testimony or legal instructions are asking for. And -- when they ask for justification and come ready to be read -- them for the second or third time and they're coming back for the verdict ten minutes later the got a pretty good idea that. Excuse me that the juries think in self defense at that point. Here is James know he was a defense attorney for Max wanted to just that was up on charges of murder first former roommate CJ shown so. You wore it I mean as this all went out or you as surprised that there was nothing that stuck to me -- he's clean he's out of jail. You know I really wasn't surprised by that I thought -- -- I thought there was certainly a possibility that the jurors could come back with a lesser charge than murder but I thought from the get go that self defense was. It was a viable defense in this case and that it was you know a good chance it was going to be successful. Yeah. -- yesterday to win -- CJ's mom called Valerie Cottrell. She I wanted to play specific things trio and and what you kind of go -- I think all of us after hearing her war kind of scratch our heads going how does a jury come to this conclusion. Well there's always another side to story sure stay here she is describing. The 911 call her son was on 91 on the phone 911. And here comes Max out of room into a hallway of the house pool with a shotgun. It would com what I want you usually do you -- you can hear me first saying I want one action. Here's -- push around a lot. And you hear that second round rock in you can hear people telling me. Was played in court. And -- that I'm -- we heard that we thought why does kind -- made dead. -- said he usually somebody in a bag you're screwed what is it looks like you're night. Threatening did you arrest three different -- you. What are we not seeing here. Well we've taken a couple sort of -- -- to -- you know in I would in no way ever criticize ms. Cattrall 'cause I can't even imagine what he's going through and this has. Under any circumstances you know a tragedy for both sides there there's no question about that but the reality is that 91 call that was played in court. I -- don't agree with her assessment of what was said. In that and I don't want to call it's about nine seconds. All you hear is mayhem. You hear a bunch of people yelling and screaming I don't. In my opinion and I and I talked to other people who were in the -- who heard it as well. No one that I talked to said that he was saying after 911 you can hear certainly the F word you -- some other words but it's yelling and screaming back and forth. I don't believe that you hear the gunshot on their that was an argument to the prosecution made. I don't believe the jury most salacious shotgun right and a house. You're gonna etc. cannon man absolutely in the testimony was the -- was shot somewhere between 91 in nine feet. From CJ -- so if he's on the phone common sense tells you that -- -- Qaeda because it's only thing you hear on the phone right -- drowns out all the -- you have to drowns -- everything in my left for you fired a shotgun yeah it and the outside of the -- -- -- almost -- your -- and again firearms technician came in said he shot in testing -- -- shot fourteen times was very -- He had your protection on the whole time. Can't and the reality is you can hear voices above what they were claiming were the shotgun blasts beyond what is sounded like was static or scuffle or something along those lines. Whether it was the phone Robin on summaries clothing or there was a scuffle going on I'm not entirely sure I don't know what it was. But I don't believe it was gunshots because you can hear voices louder than these noises OK and I've got to believe that the jury found the same way and from talking to other people who were in the courtroom and -- -- spectators -- who heard the call nobody believe those were -- so how do you still -- it's -- so. The let's say that 911 take that take that call out of it though. How do you defend somebody that gash on the bank and some money that's being aggressive and and so here's the second point that doesn't move into Tommy and I appreciate your. Refocus me I watch a lot of television success. But I did tell -- to those it's a talent the skill. So it essentially there's the there's seven different instructions for self defense in New York State. And one of them is particular to if someone has broken in your house and and is essentially burglarizing and we think of burglarizing as as stealing but that's not what per glorious burglary is. You've gone into remained in -- dwelling that you're not allowed to begin with the intent to commit any crime therein. So what this particular instruction says if you believe someone's in your house without permission on the facts clearly showed that does what Max fully if it's not yet trying to change the door and changed the lock to keep CJ out. He finds him in his house and does not know how we got there. And then he alleges that -- is that he's trying to assault him which is a crime yeah so what the losses is under those circumstances you're allowed to use deadly physical force if you believe it's necessary to stop the burglary. So it has nothing to do with the regular self defense destruction that you have to believe someone's about to kill you before you can use deadly physical force. I -- a journalist doesn't end here in -- a little complicated you know I I I didn't really a -- I know that it is but it is it. Pretty cut and dry in terms of that and I guess not cut drive. The burglary is now all we think I think of somebody with a -- -- in the window now what we seeing cartoons that's not -- if I have somebody out why no I and I may have a relationship with that's gone sour. They've come back in my house I'm telling them get out they refuse to leave the remaining in the -- right then and then they're gonna take something that is. You know possess and I don't know that's nine -- a loss that's just saying but if it's something that I believe his mind in the -- removing it more now you're committing a crime. Correct and I have the right to shoot and kill well if you believe that's necessary to stop to stop the crime not necessarily to save your life and stop the crime whatever that may be. So you know it makes sense if you really stop and dig into a little bit essentially what it is is the law affords us a greater protection inside of our own home. And that makes sense via the regular self defense destruction would require someone to have to try to retreat from a situation if they claim it's complete safety you given no do you do that your own home. And it also takes away this this do you have to believe that someone's gonna use deadly physical force against you right and and moves into hey if you're stopping the burglary and you believe this is what you need to do to do it -- justified. So under those circumstances whether the person shot on the front of the back whatever the case might just -- matter it doesn't matter maybe the guy turned around to go pick up the baseball bat that he saw -- the front door maybe they get turned around to go back and get somebody else to help them. Comeback in in and finish the commissioner described as long as you've got a reasonable leave the -- crimes not over. You know I don't -- much effect in the trial to the relationship between obviously. Play into this with -- -- yeah I would because you've got Max who rented to CJ CJ who according to his mom still had items at the house. That due to bad breaks on his car that's why the car was still there. His car CJ is and also the fact it's like a Dresser was in the basement something he went upstairs to final was missing. He had a third party who is also living their medium and I don't and let him have entry into the house. Although the house is all WiMax so that's -- property no matter who goes wide Max has final say if he's the guy whose names on the on the deed so. All this to me seem like an overreaction of people fighting there's questions the mother questioned the mental stability and health of Macs and overhaul that plays in. We'll certainly the prior history between the two of them certainly plays and I mean you've got a roommate that lived there -- nine months there was a very tumultuous situation which resulted in being kicked out. My objective. And the change of the Dora -- and announced that the level are trying to keep this kid out of house he hasn't been in a couple -- and and you know -- the testimony of of the third roommate. Yeah the second remain Wright who who. Some would say let him in the house his exact testimony was I shut the door left CJ outside and I thought it was locked. -- so wasn't he said hey CJ CJ let himself and did that's right Erica that's right and eliminate an amendment -- the -- may believe the door was like do -- thing I don't know whether you guys of her now but. But -- came in a play is. In his testimony from one of the witnesses a CJ taken bath salts about a half an hour before this and there was certainly testimony that we brought out on our direct case from the Monroe County medical Examiner's office. That he was actively high on bath -- of the time she was slightly different lead there was nothing in -- system this time of the oceans and then we got looks and plays -- claim -- they were in his Blatter. Later they'd -- they were exiting so he can't get to the Blatter. Iran and don't just use it is not in the Blatter bladders on the way out. And you're no longer really hot -- there was concentrations in the brain your concentrations in the chest blood there are concentrations and of entry is humor which is the fluid behind your right. And there were concentrations in the Iran. What the doctor testified to on the stand was that the urine. Tells her that he hadn't just taken but it at least 10203040. Minutes an hour. What the year Intel's or is that that they had sometimes that's what -- -- being -- open it up to me when I die and that's right -- especially when you see these concentrations particularly in the brain. I mean in the high end -- ability I mean that's that's you know in indicative of it's a little while to celebrate your altered if you take it to get high pay your rank lyrics. Just patrols dogs -- your brain that tells you something after. OK so this is this does sound well a little different -- and interns and their relationship obviously things -- gone south. Did they ever say why they were blocking him out changing -- I mean I heard that he had lost his job as mom says that CJ had lost a job and was able to pay ran. And was going to sign up car over its own and it was just how -- was at -- breaks had a missing tailers like a group. I mean we talk and 500 bucks I don't know that's kinda the impression I got telling a joke. Myself photographs the car blues in 1999 Chevy Malibu on those things go for a sweet penny. And I mean a permanent as a hood was a different colors in the rest of the car dog so it's unique it it was CEOs. That's what's custom -- -- get by the crisis head on hot rod that it does somewhat I. This goes my I think 500 dollars would be and general assessment of the -- -- one of those push Poehler dressed it would not save 500 was at the back owed back in -- he was getting gets a -- you can yeah yeah I know I wanted to I have no I don't ever really hear it see here's interred there. Is that I cover rent that was kind of when I got the impression of it sounded like -- just and there was no testimony that was the purpose of their -- over the testimony was doing this stuff he took bath salts he hasn't been there in two months and they decide to go over their on their way to normal kind of reminds me of OJ a little bit when he was in Vegas. And he thought the dude has some of his stuff Bryant that he was signed without it so he said on this gonna go out there in that room and go take my stuff you know. And you just can't do that concede in OJ's money things votes mine all Disco Janet. And I'm just gonna lock in this room uninvited and threaten this guy and take my stuff and I -- right to do that and you don't. You -- -- interesting analogy to Tommy I don't figure that far off this -- it you know like in somebody's mind. And is gonna take this man and I don't run but I have a right to walk in your house and take what I think his mind right. And I don't know right flying unless you divided -- you know I you know I was explained as somebody the other day at a different type cases look you know. The bank can't just come take your house does some make -- payments again goes through a process. Right so they don't walk up and say you're idea they don't comment -- he's -- got a house in order to to get ahead of the announcers saying you know Armenia got to go through the proper channels you know -- whatever the dispute may be a million. You know your dumb kid. -- -- -- James noble defense attorney he just wrapped up the Mac and all right trial and Max is Alex and hearing the other side we heard from CJ Jones mum about the Valerie -- yesterday. Now one of the things Valerie said and she said this on the news was. And I don't even know that you can answer this but she believes that Max will kill again now I don't. I mean look I beat you know the guy and we are restaurant a client yeah we did we so why do you think that she really talked about. His mental stability to that play into by the way -- she talked about there was a mental history past and there was. Medication and his parents and live next on the keep an eye on them right. I mean certainly he looked I said this and people were killed me on us -- I think I said that he is from his mug shot to court issue a completely different -- well I was just steel spikes here and and Harry Potter and Harry Potter glasses with the yellow tint lenses. That was on there and in Missouri clean up -- went to court and I say when you go to the doctor or in the emergency room put on a clincher wash your face comb your hair you get -- a little better respect than you would if you don't insult. You know as part of -- Again it you know here's a sixth. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- And unstable kid who does she still fears that he's gonna go on murder again you and I said there was just feel that go buy a gun issue is on now. I go honey. There's somebody's. But I always gonna come do some bad I'm gonna get a piece so I kind of thought that she was full of crap when she says that you again I don't I don't -- criticize her Modano you're she's got her own position and I can't imagine what -- -- rule I mean. You know there was videotape Canada net evidence -- Michael I was talking to the police for a couple of hours he was clue remorseful about what happened he was in shock when he learned. That CJ was he's crying on the videotape. I mean. You know that there was bad blood between the two of them absolutely but you know this is something the Mexican interior with -- for the rest of his life insurance tell you won't do regrets what happens that they not to say that he was necessarily right in the marathon was not guilty but. You know anybody in that scenario is gonna take a look back -- what's happened in and and reevaluate her choice and reflecting a there's a million different things that could happen and and I think John you know she certainly wish is that that none of this happened I mean he spent a year in jail waiting to go to trial he. You know he he has remorse about -- -- to say that if -- she's gonna do it again they think you're. Just emotional response. When you're overwhelmed by eight. The facts at hand essentially. -- thought -- we're talking to James noble defense attorney in 965 of the CMF is defense attorney for Max wind in this last trial but if you knew him. It's a certificate with your -- -- here's -- there're couple things. There was a girl there. And she brought up the fact that the girl was underage. She brought the fact that the mom bought the girl this max's mom. Max's mother Max is dating this girl according to. -- mrs. Cottrell. Who is CJ's mom. The boy who died too young men who died. She says that Max winds girlfriend was under age and the girl's parents didn't want her with Max. So max's mom went water attract phones so Max could caller. And that she was there and one of the things Macs faster to do was get bleach to clean up. The blood. But at and around throw something out. I I feel like I have to sit you sit near absolute and any non minority answering a question you guys have yet you know look at the armed. The prosecution charges in what witnesses they put on the stand and connect they did not call this witness. There was a girl there and she was dropped off there by her father that day sort of suggested she's not allowed to go over there is not credible okay yeah mama -- -- the -- I don't it's. You know I don't I I certainly know nothing about anybody buying any track phone I don't think that's true enough -- era in Korea and end no not and I don't know how miss Cottrell would have any of that information necessarily. Mom I don't know whether it's true or not true it's it's not anything that was a part of our case. But you know I -- -- it would make LA look at I would think that as attorneys if you thought you had. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Now Carl's on the line. -- says he knows juror are we allowed to take a call like this even though it's it's -- done. Sure yeah I mean OK I don't know like deadly there's like one of the funky things that this trial was. An alternate juror was kicked out why was that on the phone company yeah well it. You know in this day and -- there's so much information you can get through the Internet and the computer and all the church and it and there was an issue with a juror they didn't do anything wrong but they came across some information that. You know warning we ask juries to decide -- case -- -- -- -- it was what -- -- inside the courtroom for the very reasons you were just talking about -- you know -- here in the -- rumor and speculation not supposed to talk about that you're supposed to talk about what you hear from the witness -- And so. This particular juror came across something that. Was from outside the courtroom via social media. And the entire jury panel became aware of those social media is absolutely -- the truth lives five and he about the influence here so let's -- media in the world wide web of misinformation it. Carl is in the city knows a juror and thinks max's reaction was an act when CJ died why do you say that Karl. Where are monasteries. There when they could -- officer can record literal. And he told that massacre he did it escalate. Super car -- factor. After she shot steadier she would it not only under our landlord law. Well suited did not move for more than two where she knew before he left that being perceived it was there. Well here's an interesting thing a live report james' answers. As as you're saying this he waited nine minister com I'm -- one. They played -- -- call what that woods made by CJ can no matter what happens when 9:1 o'clock I have. -- drunken we missed dialed 911 as hard as that is there is. Arabian Sea in the top -- now I know I don't wanna win numbers automatic 911 there. I hung up they show up. I'm sick of that because it is CJ is call somebody's talent somebody's got. And right get that happens on a fairly regular basis -- and I think this procedure it -- there there was an argument that there was nine minutes but that assumes -- -- on the phone call you hear the gunshots which we talked about earlier. So the only way you can establish said nine minutes is that that phone call contains the gunshots and again that was disputed and and I don't think that the jurors found credibility in that. It hit and again no -- I talked to. Seemed to hear gunshots on that tapes that's the only way you can establish that my feeling -- is the whole struggle on the flight and all the other things that happen happen after the phone call. Which took couple variety of those nine minutes obviously so. I had I don't think it's that clear and that says that there was nine minutes in between the time of the shooting in and I think effective evidence supports that there wasn't nine minutes. Are all up and turned it barks when -- risk -- Chris responded not sure about school. -- Chris Fargo where get a whole -- Karl. There you were on the jury Weiss who's a friend you can. Our current dirt killed -- there's no way you have -- -- -- -- -- is in the used to that the mother was there we know the father lived around the corner to -- left. Around the corner I. I know a -- I also know there. Manner at the -- for my turn to operate the Medicare -- -- on the -- Columbus which spells. He shot with a rubber bullet Yahoo! and ask them their -- -- then he took the time to switch those. It should look at finisher. In the back about their changes the outcome of the case -- -- -- -- man in the back. OK but and Carl. As you're saying this stuff -- and then why do you think the jury and your friend who was on the jury who I think is GO. Why would they find -- not guilty then again I want you you sound earlier hanging guilt on this guy. You know you're not. Because there was actually live there are dealt and that's where our lower. There is a sliver of doubt if -- -- -- -- earlier by the definition of the law that they didn't -- -- the -- thought that he was being ripped off. And he has a right to stand his ground in his house to stop somebody from stealing from him inside -- don't. What is dark but I mean you are still at the piano a medical Peter. There are here Richard pierce or knows yeah it's around one. No that's not true not in this particular case has particular jury instruction the you don't have to be in fear of your life. You have to believe that the actions are taking are necessary to stop the crime that this uninvited person just committing or about to commit your house that there. Start off so I didn't feel like you're gonna get killed but I. It's our experience recorder manager told me there. Pierre Karl Welker Roosevelt if you follow the letter of the law yet Blair asked a walk -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- in my in good conscious as I sit there is irrational being. That this is the conclusion I come through the Mets -- this is Eric Johnson & Johnson -- -- -- -- Kyle I mean he's not energetic -- -- -- America I know that -- you see here's the thing he's disarmed by the -- I I believe when you make decisions there's two parts there's a motion. And there's intellect. And you have to take emotion out of decisions like this and you have to go within her. And it might. It's our producer is to be objective criteria that they are and then -- that's why they reach. Well what you're bringing into it now is on the -- out is a motion because you go. Hey guys Howard he shot a guy in the back that's an emotional response. Now -- and it's based on an ad that just trying to clarify here and are you are up for it. Horrible thing you guys dead of their families grieving and in tremendous pain it's hard. Nobody nobody wanted their quote I am human right -- Every -- under is also felt that he pulled the trigger there was an aspect of their. Got the letter process that he must walk. Okay all right well then didn't James did his job. In which is what the court system is now therefore end. You know emotion is emotion and sure Iberia you're human would that we have emotions and you'll be hard we can all sink -- look at this this could be my brother my -- my cousin mark my friend. And and I can be there to its real quick rubber bullet verses the shock and shell the switch in barrels. I hadn't heard that that's I really think this guy who's on the Gerri at Google I can -- and girl's -- who's not on the jury okay but the -- The the switching barrels there's testimony that this gone. By the -- oil real look re Cox the second says the second barrel so you don't need to do anything -- can pull that your twice in a row clean up without eminent to why have a rubber. That's a good question. Mueller's testimony there are several guns in the house most of the collectibles and boxed up this was the only weapon they found 122 -- was loaded another match. You know this was your dad doesn't get the job now that this is the only candidate found. And I think you know it's it is and the officer even said this in the interview you know to his credit. He did use -- a -- round first yeah I mean if your intention is to kill somebody in cold blooded murder. Who's gonna should with a rubber ball. But I mean that just doesn't make any sense to and I think that was an important fact that the jurors looked Datsyuk because. You know again appear intent is to kill someone if this was premeditated. And you think Jesus next time I see this down and kill him or whatever the case or or wanna kill him right now because he's in my living room. You do not put a rubber ball in the first round of the economy you don't do that. So you know I think to the rubber bullet didn't stop this kid. So he told the necessary. -- Shoot again. That's that's the testimony as he came out of the trial through videotape and that yet he kept coming -- and burn -- could. So all right James noble defense attorney thank you CS -- never -- -- -- that. At the Thomas said I guess our national veterans say this yes I've had very few remains in my life but they were never gonna experiences I had morning college and then after that I -- to wise. No roommates and also it's. I was venerable -- in the the united stuff.